Seinfeld

SEINFELD BLOG

Seinfeld DVD Complete Series Box Set

Seinfeld Script Search:

Are these downloads legal?

1 | 2 Next
Author Message
Matt







PostPosted: May 26, 2004 8:43 AM 

Hi Stan (or anyone else who knows). Is the downloading of these episodes of seinfeld illegal? The other posts in previous threads are a bit airy-fairy...

Chris
Low-Talker

Posts: 4

Reply: 1



PostPosted: May 26, 2004 8:47 AM 

I wouldn't call these downloads legal. Using the philosphy in other posts found here..

"This is not illegal as long as you are using them for your own private use - if you start selling them, then it is what we call 'getting into the grey are'"

If that is true, that would mean that you could download Windows XP and use it for private use, legally. Correct?

Seinfeld is copyrighted work and is property of the original authors. It cannot be redistributed legally without purchasing some kind of license. Why do you think television stations have to pay to broadcast it?

I know its hard to really stop the sharing because its done over the Torrent P2P network where all users play apart in sharing the files, but even listing and supplying the torrents can be considered illegal..

Just my bit.

Chris.

Marine Biologist
Bob Sakamano

Posts: no

Reply: 2



PostPosted: May 26, 2004 9:34 AM 

Obviously this material is copyrighted. The videos are the property I believe of Sony Pictures which own Columbia Tristar Home Entertainment. For that matter, so are the scripts.

I’m no expert, but I don’t quite agree with Chris. Downloading commercial software without a license is not the same as downloading broadcast material that could equally well be taped or digitally captured from the airwaves -- completely legally.

I’m not saying this sort of video repository is legal, I’m saying it’s a grey area about which the copyright holders currently don’t give a rat’s ass (as mentioned elsewhere, Jerry himself is aware of this site and I’m sure it’s no secret from Sony/Columbia). They absolutely have the right to request that the material be removed, but there’s no sign that anyone is upset about it. In similar situations elsewhere, some copyright owners have indeed made such requests, and there the matter has ended. It’s no big deal.

Where it gets drastically different is when you try to profit from it, e.g.- by selling DVD sets. Whoever called that a “grey area” (I don’t mean Chris – I mean wherever that quote was from) is absurdly mistaken. That sort of stuff on a large scale is usually pursued fairly aggressively and any large-scale DVD sellers are at risk of being busted on criminal charges if they haven’t been already.

Steve Elliott
Low-Talker

Posts: 16

Reply: 3



PostPosted: May 26, 2004 9:41 AM 

Just my opinion. The quality is good for the HQ episodes but not HDTV by any means. Most people are just real fans that miss the episodes and want them in there collection. I for one am keeping them in *avi just to watch on my laptop on vacation for a good laugh. I think people that are just here to commercialize and sell these discs could draw attention to us and probably not good. I think the producers and the ones that hold the license and Jerry himself are willing the other way as long as we don't abuse the privelege.

Shamus
Low-Talker

Posts: 8

Reply: 4



PostPosted: May 26, 2004 1:04 PM 

There is no "gray area," it is illegal as it can be. Look up any copyright law. Any of you connected to the tracker are being scanned by Sony, and if you keep downloading you will risk receiving a letter from your ISP warning you that Sony knows you are downloading their copyrighted material. The show is on TV 500 times a day, so watch it and wait for the DVD's.

Marine Biologist
Bob Sakamano

Posts: no

Reply: 5



PostPosted: May 26, 2004 1:52 PM 

No offense, but what a load of BS.

If you're going to make things up at least try to make it believable.

If Sony/Columbia ever have a problem with this, all they have to do is make a polite request to have the download resources removed. They have the right to do that. End of story. No need for cloak-and-dagger stuff; no need whatever for traffic monitoring or having spies with binoculars hanging from trees and dropping off mysterious letters in the night Laughing

andy
Bob Sakamano

Posts: no

Reply: 6



PostPosted: May 26, 2004 3:51 PM 

let's cut the debate. its good way to wait for the dvd's Smile . that way everyone's happy: fans, sony, jerry, larry, cable tv. its not doing hamr to anyone, far from that...

and those BT links can bring new fans that cant watch seinfeld on tv...finest exemple, me.

Merv Griffin
Bob Sakamano

Posts: no

Reply: 7



PostPosted: May 26, 2004 4:45 PM 

Mmmmm!Correct me if I'm wrong but I personally think this website is the most efficient promotion that Sony and Seinfeld could've ever dreamed of for marketing their DVD boxset fall release.Legal or not,this site is doing them a damn good favor......and free of charge,bottom line.

I will no matter what,purchase the official collection when it'll come out in November and you know why?Because of that site.

Denis
Low-Talker

Posts: 1

Reply: 8



PostPosted: May 26, 2004 6:11 PM 

Downloading the episodes is only a temporary fix. I still plan on buying the DVDs the minute they're realeased, as I'm sure most Seinfeld fans will.

Shamus
Low-Talker

Posts: 8

Reply: 9



PostPosted: May 26, 2004 6:42 PM 

Marine Biologist, you are a fool if you think you are safe and anonymous when trading illegally pirated files. It is happening whether you want it to or not. I know that these companies are on torrents from suprnova, and the reason their site hasn't been shut down is because it is run in another country. I don't know why people haven't asked this site to shut down the torrents, but ask anyone with peerguardian or protowall and they will tell you supposed sony IP's are scanning them constantly.

By using BT, you are subject to a lawsuit anyway because when you download, you also upload. They are cracking down on the distributors of the content, and anyone who uses BT is one of them.

Merv Griffin
Bob Sakamano

Posts: no

Reply: 10



PostPosted: May 26, 2004 7:10 PM 

Any info you might need to know on torrents is available at this site.Basics,terminology,legal issues,it's all there.If you want to do it,you might as well do it right. Wink

http://www.monduna.com/bt/faq.html

Chris
Low-Talker

Posts: 4

Reply: 11



PostPosted: May 27, 2004 2:26 AM 

"I’m no expert, but I don’t quite agree with Chris. Downloading commercial software without a license is not the same as downloading broadcast material that could equally well be taped or digitally captured from the airwaves -- completely legally."

Yes it is. It is exactly the same. It is not legal for you to record a television show for that matter either. It just happens so much that a blind eye has been put to it.

"I’m not saying this sort of video repository is legal, I’m saying it’s a grey area about which the copyright holders currently don’t give a rat’s ass (as mentioned elsewhere, Jerry himself is aware of this site and I’m sure it’s no secret from Sony/Columbia)."

We will see just how much they care when you guys receive a legal threat or some cease and decist letters. Sony are big supporters with the RIAA and the MPAA

"No offense, but what a load of BS.

If you're going to make things up at least try to make it believable."

Not bull. Whats to stop Sony and Columbia making a bit torrent client that when it connects to the torrent it scans the ip's of the seeds? For all you know, they could have all of your IP's right now. The BitTorrent prototcol is a public protocol, hence the numerous amount of clients that can connect to it. Although it is secure with data transfer it has to connect to the seeds to receive the data first.

Shamus is also correct in saying that they are also active on SuprNova and other torrent sites but they cannot shut them down because they are ran in another country.

Marine Biologist
Bob Sakamano

Posts: no

Reply: 12



PostPosted: May 27, 2004 8:41 AM 

Shamus and Chris, I was making a simple point which I think has been missed.

If Sony has an issue with these videos their recourse is to request to have it removed. It's really just that simple, because the resources are all centralized right here.

Identifying IP's, launching lawsuits, etc. is a whole different scenario related to (a) massive decentralized P2P networks like Kazaa, where the only identifiable resources are the individual peers themselves, and which (b) have a major economic impact on content providers, especially music publishers. Hence the RIAA lawsuits of late – they're fighting for their very existence.

As some folks have pointed out, this is the best Seinfeld public relations and fan site ever, which is probably doing more to drum up interest in the upcoming DVD's than Sony could ever have done by themselves. If Sony nevertheless feel at some point that they need to address the copyright issues here then they have a simple and expedient option as I described. If the DVD's are out by then I doubt anyone here would care anyway.

Until that happens, I don't see what all the fuss is about.

And on that note, I'm going back to enjoying Seinfeld. Very Happy

Chris
Low-Talker

Posts: 4

Reply: 13



PostPosted: May 27, 2004 8:55 AM 

"If Sony has an issue with these videos their recourse is to request to have it removed. It's really just that simple, because the resources are all centralized right here."

And back to my example again.. So it is not an issue to have Windows XP up for download on a website, until Microsoft ask you to remove it?

"Identifying IP's, launching lawsuits, etc. is a whole different scenario"

Naw, not really, they MPAA and RIAA couldn't give a stuff who it relates to, either could Sony and Columbia.

"As some folks have pointed out, this is the best Seinfeld public relations and fan site ever, which is probably doing more to drum up interest in the upcoming DVD's than Sony could ever have done by themselves."

I would have to agree on that point though.

"Until that happens, I don't see what all the fuss is about."

That it is illegal, that the authors are not receiving their royalties from the distribution of these episodes.

Even though you may not think it has any effect on the money side of things, think of it this way. Sony and Columbia are losing money from this distribution, so are the television stations that air it. They get paid from the advertisers based on how many people are viewing during a certain time period. Offering these episodes for download will slowly impact the amount of users who actually watch Seinfeld, therefore the advertiser wont pay as much for the air time, the channel will loose profits, and so will Sony and Columbia.

Yes, although the DVD set has not been released, it still doesn't make it right to redistribute the episodes for free, illegally.

Steve Elliott
Low-Talker

Posts: 16

Reply: 14



PostPosted: May 27, 2004 11:42 AM 

Chris and Shamus;

If you don't like whats going on....then tell on us, otherwise find another room to bother. I agree with others that this is a great way to bring further attention to the shows and new customers. I further agree that most of us will get the DVD's when they come out, as the quality is nice but not 'perfect'. Finally if it were such a big deal we would be charged when we used to watch the series every Thursday night, like a DVD rental or going to a movie.

nobody
Bob Sakamano

Posts: no

Reply: 15



PostPosted: May 27, 2004 8:49 PM 

Well said Steve Elliott.

Why dont you ,Chris and Shamus,fuck off out of here if you question it.Why not elope with each other go watch some episodes of Friends (legal dvds of course)together.Romance may blossom.

Hey how gay,not that theres anything wrong with that.

Shamus
Low-Talker

Posts: 8

Reply: 16



PostPosted: May 27, 2004 9:47 PM 

Well said nobody, your post shows your mentality as if any of us didn't know how stupid you were already, you have to resort to using profanity. I don't come here for the videos, I come to chat with other seinfeld fans, and if you don't believe what we have to say then that's your problem. I'm not saying you're going to get caught for sure downloading these videos, but if you use BT to download anything, especially movies, you will be caught and it's only a matter of time.

I just want it to be known to anyone who doesn't know what is going on, that this is something they need to be careful about and it's not like downloading a trailer from apple.com, there are consequences and they should protect themselves.

Matt
Bob Sakamano

Posts: no

Reply: 17



PostPosted: May 27, 2004 10:02 PM 

I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THIS IS ABOUT ANYMORE Shocked

It is strange to me that seeing as though Stan's site is first on the list in google for "seinfeld download videos" that Sony hasn't asked for the site to be removed...

I think that if the Seinfeld series were more readily available in our department stores then there would be no need for downloading them and hence no need for this confusing arguement.

Excuse me nobody, Steve made a valid point as you said, but I think that your comment was about as useful as a rusted piece of metal from the bottom of a steel bin on a deserted underground railway station in London.


Now, back to my original question:
"Hi Stan (or anyone else who knows). Is the downloading of these episodes of seinfeld illegal? The other posts in previous threads are a bit airy-fairy..."

Chris
Low-Talker

Posts: 4

Reply: 18



PostPosted: May 27, 2004 10:03 PM 

"If you don't like whats going on....then tell on us, otherwise find another room to bother."

Its not that I dont like you, i just have a strong diskliking of seeing these video's being redistributed illgeally. If you were true fans of Seinfeld, that is something you would be completely against. You would want to see Sony, Columbia and all other parties involved being rewarded for their creation, not their rights and royalties being taken away from them.

If you want me to tell on you, thats something i plan to do, to at least get the BT links removed from this site, because i for one am appauled to see this happening. I will email Sony and the producers when i get home for you if you like. Cool

"Finally if it were such a big deal we would be charged when we used to watch the series every Thursday night, like a DVD rental or going to a movie. "

The free to air television stations get charged for you to watch Seinseld every thursday night, the sponsors (aka the advertisers) supply the revenue for you to have a free broadcasted episode. They dont pay for you to download copies of Seinfeld.

"Why dont you ,Chris and Shamus,fuck off out of here if you question it.Why not elope with each other go watch some episodes of Friends (legal dvds of course)together.Romance may blossom."

Your post just shows the intellectual intelligence that actually lies inside you. There was no need for you to make a remark like this when all we were doing was stating the facts, that these downloads are illegal. Perhaps if you did not "flame" me and posted in a nicer way you might have received a nicer reply.

I know you all plan to buy the DVD releases of the serries when they are released, to show your support, but right now, are you really showing your support? Downloading these episodes against the licenses they were broadcast under, and going against copyright laws.

"I just want it to be known to anyone who doesn't know what is going on, that this is something they need to be careful about and it's not like downloading a trailer from apple.com, there are consequences and they should protect themselves."

Yes, and i think that should be made VERY clear to all users before they even attempt to download these episodes, as no warning what-so-ever is given that there are consequences to downloading them.

To answer your original question Matt, yes these downloads ARE ILLEGAL.

Matt
Bob Sakamano

Posts: no

Reply: 19



PostPosted: May 27, 2004 10:07 PM 

Oh... Well ok... Anyone else want to comment? Razz

M
Bob Sakamano

Posts: no

Reply: 20



PostPosted: May 27, 2004 10:37 PM 

Legal or not?

Maybe our host himself would like to comment on that issue...

As a professional music writer I believe Shamus and Chris's warning is valid to some extent as much as I think that this website is doing a clean job while giving a good hand to Seinfeld's DVD promotion.Now I don't see why we should keep on arguing like children. As I mention above there is plenty of helpful info available on the pros and cons of BT at:

http://www.monduna.com/bt/faq.html

I'm just being the devil's advocate here,so please let's discuss like grown ups.It is wise to know about it and it's in everyone's interest.

1 | 2 Next

Join the discussion:
















Very Happy Smile Sad Surprised
Shocked Confused Cool Laughing
Mad Razz Embarassed Crying or Very Sad
Evil or Very Mad Twisted Evil Rolling Eyes Wink
Powered by MTSmileys








Copyright ©2003, Mark Carey.