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Gack







PostPosted: May 16, 2005 8:43 PM 


OK. Where to start?

Obviously, things have been getting tense on this board. I think everything started off harmlessly enough last week; I get excited quite easily when it comes to politics, and especially when it comes to debating politics, because I think open discussions about important issues can be an exhilirating experience. That might sound bookwormish to some of you, but it's the truth. It's nice knowing you can come to some random weblog (even a 'Seinfeld' weblog) and find people who give a damn about what's going on in the real world. And I meant what I said the other day, when I mentioned how I find the STC members themselves to be the most interesting thing about this site. Perhaps that's why I institgate as much as I do.

I'll admit right now, yeah, maybe posting that last W.-ism yesterday wasn't the smoothest move. I really didn't think waxing political here was such a big deal, and I just wanted to get one more out of my system. Jimmy, that seemed to send you over the edge a bit. Bookman, in lack of a better term, scolded me for it. I spent most of yesterday afternoon fizzing over because of the whole experience.

Seems there's bad blood bubbling under the surface of things. We now have an Airing of Grievances page, a Code of Conduct page (which, yes, I broke), and a thread or two in the middle where members here are doing pretty much everything short of punching one another. S'getting crazy, totally out of hand.

Jimmy, you're a passionate person, and I respect you for that. You make clever posts, and you are, I'm guessing, a future STC Hall of Famer. Yesterday at around this time I was ready to take you on. Then I went home, cooled off, and said to myself, what am I even cooling off for? It is, after all, as everyone has been saying, just a 'Seinfeld' blog. We're here to waste some time and have some fun. I'm not sure if you've been getting certain agitative vibes from me, or even if you care, but for what it's worth, I don't have any problems with you. The site wouldn't be what it is without you, just as it would not be the same without the likes of Gend, or Bookman, or Veg, or Chiles, or Jeffr... well, the site wouldn't be the same.

Anyway. That's my little piece for the day. And legit apologies to anyone else on here who took exception to any of my posts.

VegetableLasagna
Bubble Boy

Posts: 362

Reply: 1



PostPosted: May 16, 2005 9:11 PM 

I have been watching your posts very carefully, I'm not Stan, so I can be wrong, but you never quite crossed the line in my opinion. You were pretty much laying on top of it, but never quite made that *jump* over the edge. I've been letting it go, and trying to see if you fellas can settle it on your own, which it looks like is sort of developing.

It's obvious you put some thought into this post, and for that I thank you.

Gendison
Bad Breaker Upper

Posts: 3306

Reply: 2



PostPosted: May 16, 2005 9:46 PM 

Man, I got to get on that internet(s). I'm missing everything.

Bookman
Condo Board President

Posts: 2988

Reply: 3



PostPosted: May 16, 2005 10:04 PM 

Just for the record, what I believe Gack is referring to wasn't a scolding. I'm posting this for those of you who are reading this, but never saw that other thread. I don't like my posts to be mischaracterized, even innocently.

I made a joke on that thread yesterday--a feeble attempt at irony--which I fully explained there. (Forum Code of Conduct, replies ## 37, 39, 42, 45, 48, and 51.)

On the other hand, Gack, today I called you the Great Pontificator on the same thread. It was lampoon in good humor, and it spoke to the length of your posts, not their content. (They're like the Declaration of Independence.)

I wouldn't want anybody reading this thread to think I've scolded or criticized anybody for making political commentary of any kind. It hasn't happened.

cousin jeffrey
Vile Weed

Posts: 1714

Reply: 4



PostPosted: May 16, 2005 10:18 PM 

Bare with me:


Gack, I wonder if i'll be chastized for my opinion, but i don't think your Bush-ism was out of line. I've been saying this since day 1, and that is this site is supposed to bring laughter to all who come here and is supposed to be fun. Obviously we all know Jimmy's opinions on his president. He won't let us forget.

But don't feel bad that your joke didn't sit well with one guy. I don't want to speak for anyone else, but i didn't mind what you posted. It wasn't hilarious, but it wasn't offensive either. As long as you genuinely intended to get a laugh out of the people reading your bush-ism, i got no problem with that. Jerry made jokes about Nazi's, why can't Gack make jokes about Bush? It's when it gets serious that i have don't love it. I just have a personal problem with things getting too serious on this site. I'm getting help.

I think it was you who complimented me on putting up that Airing of Grievance thread. Well, how about this: If there are enough people here who are as passionate about politics as you and Jimmy, put up a thread devoted to politics. Then you guys can do all the yelling and capitalizing of letters that you want. And if anyone wants to join in, they'll have that chance. What i was concerned about last time this stuff came up, was that it was not the proper forum. But if you guys want, post up a new thread. That way, people could make the choice to join in or not. Just call me the problem-solver (any WWE fans? I didn't think so.)

Also, and i'll probably take the most heat for this, if you and Jimmy and Gendison can get the rhetoric out of your rants, then it might seem like an intelligent conversation that you guys are having. Get the dysphemisms (sp?) out of your posts, and then political debate seems a lot less ugly. That's the main reason i hate politicians themselves, because it's all about rhetoric and not conversation. It's ok to have an opinion, but take out the cheapshots and meaningless name-calling. Otherwise it comes off a little whiny, like sour grapes. I'm not saying that's what it is, but it just comes off that way. And that's very unappealing to anyone who is interested in a real political debate.

cousin jeffrey
Vile Weed

Posts: 1714

Reply: 5



PostPosted: May 16, 2005 10:22 PM 

In paragraph 2, it should read :

"It's when it gets serious that i don't love it."

I never thought i'd have to correct a post by directing you to the "2nd paragraph."

Jimmy


Posts: 5505

Reply: 6



PostPosted: May 16, 2005 10:29 PM 

My apologies for overreacting, Gack. And I'm not just saying that because you did first. I've been wanting to write this all day, but haven't had a chance til now.

Guess I just didn't understand, after we all seemed to agree it was a go-nowhere subject, why it was starting up again. I, too, have posted his quotes here in the past, but it was more so to illustrate how frightening they were, rather than humorous. But at that time, some were joining in and saying "this is one of my favorites," or "here's a really good one," I just couldn't take it. It turned into something that I didn't intend. Yes, I am extremely sensitive to it, perhaps too sensitive to it. And it seems that most people, not just you, but the majority of Americans, and perhaps the world, can somehow find something "funny," in something so dangerous, and it's quite disturbing to me. It would appear that you are on the "right" side, as far as your opinion of the man, I don't know. But I guess it just doesn't help when I see, what I interpret, as naivety. I'm from Detroit, and I even get upset over all of the Pistons glory (because they actually showed up to the White House after being invited and shook that prick's hand). In my book, they support terrorism... I don't care how extreme that seems. I want everyone to hate him, avoid him, disagree with him, protest him...and destroy him. But it will never happen, and the worst part of it is, that he could really care less who opposes him anyway.

One day, probably sooner than we all expect, there may be millions of lives lost in this country in the blink of an eye, and I will blame one person for it if it does happen. I would hope then, that the laughing and complacency would finally stop... and people would stop thinking that having The Rain Man as the leader of the free world is no joking matter. I know I'm in the minority... but ignorance and incompetence at that level just scares the hell out of me, and I don't think it's being taken seriously by most, even though there IS not much that can be done (by you and I anyway), at this point to change that.

I've never sensed any negative vibes from you in the past. I have an unfortunate ability to go off on anyone at anytime... best friends, close family, bosses, it doesn't matter who they are, what they mean to me, or what the consequences are later. I shoot first, and ask questions later. It's one of my faults (we all have them) and it's not my proudest personal trait. It's no accident why I selected the name "Jimmy." I put a lot of thought into it when I came here.

As I said on that thread, I have recently given up friends simply because they support that asshole. I now consider them babykillers, even after ten to fifteen years of great friendship. I rarely speak to my brother anymore who goes to see the asshole whenever he visits Michigan, and who doesn't give two shits that he has close family whom haven't worked in three years, because he's rich and Republican and everything's hunky-dory in his world. Oh yeah, I've got stories. My blood is boiling right now just writing about him (my brother). But this is not a diary, so that's enough of that.

If there are any similar posts made in the future, I won't blow up over them. Maybe I'll just move on, or take a break, or whatever. I can't escape it in life, why should I expect to escape it here. I have no right telling anyone what they should or shouldn't write here, even though I stand behind, and still believe, everything I've said.

I'd just like to put it in the past if we could.

Gack
Wigmaster

Posts: 809

Reply: 7



PostPosted: May 16, 2005 11:07 PM 


1. Bookman. Didn't mean to misrepresent you. S'why I said "in lack of a better term." Couldn't think of the right word.

2. Jimmy, I totally understand everything you're saying. And obviously, at this juncture, the last thing I want is to start things up again, but I would like to say, in my defense, that it's not naivety on my part. I do stand on what I feel to be the right side of the fence, though that shouldn't be confused with the right side of the fence. I think in the end, all it comes down to is that you and I both have a similar hatred for the current "President," (you might be more outspoken, but believe me, my hatred is there) but we just choose to deal with our feelings in different ways. You're passionate about your anger, and exercise it to its full extent, going so far as to lose friends and clients and those (perhaps formerly) close to you over it. And there is nothing wrong with that. You stand by your principles.

Me, I look at the guy and I shake my head in disgust. I do have an admittedly sick fascination with the way that people support him and follow him around like a mindless cult, unconcerned with what he's doing because A) they don't think it affects them, and B) they don't care about the ones who it truly affects, every day. This might come as a disappointment to Jeffrey, but I never intended any of the Bushisms to be hilarious; they're more like historical records that I read with a bemused sense of humour. I sit there and I wonder how in the !@#$% the guy made it this far, regardless of his friends and family.

I have given up. All I can do is wait for another 3 1/2 years. It's not so much complacency as it is a genuine sense of defeat. That feeling of having to just sit here and take it. I don't laugh at the man because I don't know any better. I laugh because that's basically all I have left. I can't beat him, so instead I just hang around and watch him f*ck up.

I never thought I would have to turn to the words of Ralph Wiggum to truly express what I mean, but hey, when all else fails...

"He's still funny. Only not 'ha ha' funny."

cousin jeffrey
Vile Weed

Posts: 1714

Reply: 8



PostPosted: May 16, 2005 11:08 PM 

BTW, Gack, not only am i fifth on your list, but you don't even bother to type my whole name?!?

I thought we were friends.... Sad

Gack
Wigmaster

Posts: 809

Reply: 9



PostPosted: May 16, 2005 11:14 PM 


That was just me taking the piss, in response to your clever little "don't forget Gack" jab when someone said Queen was the only girl here.

By the way, Jeffrey, for full enjoyment, when you read that line (the one where your name is only half-there), it's best to think of Jerry and George's conversation about 'The Frogger.'

But don't worry about it, my friend. We're still like brothers. Paisanos.

Now come give us a kiss.

Jimmy


Posts: 5505

Reply: 10



PostPosted: May 16, 2005 11:20 PM 

Jeffrey.

The Nazis that Jerry jokes of are no longer attempting to control the world. That was sixty years ago. Bush is, right now. There's a difference. But Jimmy gets your point.

As far as politics, Jimmy's not big on politics. Politics are the "methods" and/or "tactics" by which people govern. Jimmy's not interested so much with that. Whatever they do or say to one another to get things done is too secret for us to ever know of anyway. However, world domination, starvation, poverty, because of a stupid cowpoke... thats more of a social concern (even though, yes, they are a result of politics). Jimmy's not educated enough to be a politician, but expects those whoa are to do their job. Jimmy doesn't really want to debate something he's not capable of handling himself.

Anyway, Jimmy wouldn't be interested in a political forum. Jimmy and politics kinda clash. Laughing

cousin jeffrey
Vile Weed

Posts: 1714

Reply: 11



PostPosted: May 16, 2005 11:23 PM 

If we can get serious for a moment, I must say i really liked what you said in reply 7. That's exactly how i interpreted your reasoning behind your Bushisms, i just wasn't able to express myself as elequently as you. Just to laugh, because there's not much else left. If that's the way you feel about the guy, then at least focus on the positive and laugh at whatever you don't like about him. Like us with Ramon.

cousin jeffrey
Vile Weed

Posts: 1714

Reply: 12



PostPosted: May 16, 2005 11:28 PM 

Good point Jimmy, it was a long time ago, and i bet nobody was making jokes about the Nazi's back then. Then again, as much as you hate Bush, and as ugly as the situation has gotten both in Iraq and in your own country, you can never compare Bush to the Nazi's, and i doubt that was your contention (is that the proper word usage?).

Gack
Wigmaster

Posts: 809

Reply: 13



PostPosted: May 16, 2005 11:28 PM 


A politicians job is not meant to be taken seriously. That's why they become politicians.

"All of them! They're all crooks!"

cousin jeffrey
Vile Weed

Posts: 1714

Reply: 14



PostPosted: May 16, 2005 11:29 PM 

Hey, i'm a wigmaster! Wait.....that's no good. Confused

J. Chiles


Posts: 5139

Reply: 15



PostPosted: May 16, 2005 11:35 PM 

CJ sez:
"Good point Jimmy, it was a long time ago, and i bet nobody was making jokes about the Nazi's back then."

Not unless you count Charlie Chaplin, The Three Stooges, W.C Fields, and countless othe comedians who could deliver a joke to an audience that could take one. Nothing personal intended, before anyone goes to back-arching, we all have out flash points.

cousin jeffrey
Vile Weed

Posts: 1714

Reply: 16



PostPosted: May 16, 2005 11:42 PM 

Well, i'm pretty young, so i just took a guess. Thank you for the correction. He is a lawyer, you know.

Jimmy


Posts: 5505

Reply: 17



PostPosted: May 16, 2005 11:42 PM 

Jimmy would never compare Bush to Hitler. That's absurd. Hitler was a soldier who, even in his sick, twisted way, actually cared about making his country great.

That's Jimmy's "contention,"

J. Chiles


Posts: 5139

Reply: 18



PostPosted: May 16, 2005 11:56 PM 

You're right Jimmy, there is no comparison. Hitler was a racist, drug addicted, genocidal, psychopath. Bush is "JUST" an idiot. Well, maybe more, but still, no comparison.

J. Chiles


Posts: 5139

Reply: 19



PostPosted: May 16, 2005 11:58 PM 

Ach, that's what I get for getting mixed up in these discussions. Goodnoght, now!

Jimmy


Posts: 5505

Reply: 20



PostPosted: May 17, 2005 12:00 AM 

Racist, drug addicted, genocidal psychopath? Why does that sound so familiar? Ah, yes...... during the election, that was it.

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