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When did Kramer become Kramer

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Ramon







PostPosted: October 25, 2005 1:21 PM 

I thought of an interesting discussion topic that came to me on the way home last night.

The question for the group is this: when do you think Kramer fully blossomed into the Kramer that we came to love.

Clearly (to me), in the earlier episodes, Richards was trying to figure out what the character of Kramer was going to be all about. In these earlier episodes, kramer was a little slower, a little dimmer, not quite as extroverted.

So the question is, what episode do you think was the real breakout episode... when did kramer really start to show the signs of the kramer kramer.

i just watched the librarian recently, and i started to get some glimpses of the real kramer (so to speak). maybe that cop scene from the robbery?

your thoughts?

HateTheDrake
Pigman

Posts: 411

Reply: 1



PostPosted: October 25, 2005 4:34 PM 

The scene where they come in during the middle of his rant against the Dewey Decimal System has me in tears laughing just thinking about it. He gets on a roll then making fun of people reading newspapers in the library then its on the "spinster" speech. He clearly loses his mind around here and becomes the Kramer seen in the poster at left.

The ultimate maniacal episode of him is without question the Merv Griffin episode.
The very idea of turning your home into a defunct television show without cameras and treating it as real job is pure lunacy. You would be sedated and taken to a mental institution if word leaked. And it's a three-way tie between the "Where'r the cameras" line, the musical introduction of George, and the we're back burp, that can all make you piss your pants laughing.

Jimmy


Posts: 5505

Reply: 2



PostPosted: October 25, 2005 5:06 PM 

I think it was too gradual of a transition to pinpoint any one episode. Just when his character appeared to be changing, it would suddenly revert back to the earlier version at times. The facial expressions, the physical blunders, the confidence, etc., all arrived at different stages.

Personally, I kind of liked the early "weird-guy" quality he started out with. The weird noises and the tripping and falling that would evolve later, have never been funny to me. I think his best attributes were his facial expressions and his line delivery, which he's had from the beginning.

It would be great to see him doing something else soon.

Mookie
Magnificent Bastard

Posts: 2285

Reply: 3



PostPosted: October 25, 2005 6:45 PM 

Ya got any meat?

Jimmy


Posts: 5505

Reply: 4



PostPosted: October 25, 2005 8:14 PM 

After my earlier post, I watched The Deal tonight. There's the scene when Kramer gives Elaine the bench for her birthday. As far as I'm concerned, he plays Kramer fully evolved in that scene, but then at the end, and in future episodes, he slips back into the Christopher Lloyd-weirdo mode slightly. That's a perfect example of what I meant by there being no real defining moment of a breakthrough into his final chatacter (in my opinion, anyway).

Mookie
Magnificent Bastard

Posts: 2285

Reply: 5



PostPosted: October 25, 2005 8:41 PM 

Well, he likes to help the humans on occasion.

Jimmy


Posts: 5505

Reply: 6



PostPosted: October 25, 2005 9:03 PM 

He's been perfecting his craft. Now he's an iPod.

J. Chiles


Posts: 5139

Reply: 7



PostPosted: October 25, 2005 10:09 PM 

What Jimmy said.

J. Chiles


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Reply: 8



PostPosted: October 25, 2005 10:34 PM 

Um, that is correct.

cousin jeffrey
Vile Weed

Posts: 1714

Reply: 9



PostPosted: October 26, 2005 1:04 AM 

One of the earliest episodes where Kramer shines for me is in the Alternate Side. After Jerry goes off on how Kramer "Must Know everything" and "putting some beg into it", Kramer turns the tables on Jerry. That to me, is one of the first examples of the "new Kramer". And also, is sensitivity comes out when he's deeply hurt about not being invited to the flea market. He had his moments in some earlier episodes, but this to me is the first episode when Kramer is never just a slow-witted neighbor.

cousin jeffrey
Vile Weed

Posts: 1714

Reply: 10



PostPosted: October 26, 2005 1:29 AM 

The Parking Space (it was Sid that got me confused.)

Ramon
Rabid Anti-Dentite

Posts: 292

Reply: 11



PostPosted: October 26, 2005 2:04 PM 

jimmy i think has nailed it.... there was no actual point of transformation, and he did in fact revert backwards on a number of occaisions.

"what have you done to my little cable boy?" classic kramer.

"take me where?" great, but not the same kramer. (said when jerry tells george to take the k-man along for some support when confronting the bus boy). kramer has this weird smile and look of wonder that is priceless, but different.

compare that to the scene when he says "i'll take it... what is it." different attitude, similar situation.

interesting observations.

Marcelino
Wealthy Industrialist

Posts: 473

Reply: 12



PostPosted: October 26, 2005 2:34 PM 

fairly obvious observations.



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